– So, I wanna say thank you so much to OneHE for having me be a part of this today and I’m looking forward to chatting about one of my favorite topics, neurodivergence. So, much of what I’ll talk about today comes from my book that just came out in May, and the book is, as you see on the screen, “A Practical Guide to Teaching Neurodivergent College Students.” And there is a 20% off sales code right now with Harvard Education Press, who is the publisher. And you’ve got the code there on the screen, HCPR26, and that will take you… The link rather will take you to their website where you will use that code for 20% off. So, my university requires that we indicate this in any presentations we do, so I’m just gonna quickly state that the stories, opinions, and content in this presentation are my own and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Kentucky.

So, I thought I’d start today just sort of vaguely talking about why, why this book, why write this book? So, I’m gonna put up a… This is a screenshot from my college transcript. As you can see, spring semester in 1997-1998. I was not what one might call a “good student” quote unquote. I just didn’t know what I was doing, to be honest. And I know now, looking back, that I just didn’t have the executive functioning skills quite yet that I would need to be successful in a college situation. I also was an undiagnosed ADHDer at the time, and very soon after this disastrous semester, which you can see ended in two Fs and a D+ and looks like the only things I did well in were my voice lessons and choir. I was a music major. So, good times. That was a disastrous semester after which I went and started to talk to somebody about the possibility of maybe there’s something that’s not quite lining up correctly here and then received an ADHD diagnosis. And that’s fairly late for ADHD, but not for females. Many females are diagnosed quite later in life, especially now we’re starting to see a lot of women in their 40s and 50s being diagnosed when they take their kids to be diagnosed. So, I’ll just quickly today, I’m gonna talk through how the book is organized but I’m gonna do that kind of as part of the presentation as well. So, I’ve organized the book in these three pieces you can see here, so part one is just sort of the basics. It’s helpful for everybody to be on the same page when we’re talking about neurodivergence, so I just wanted to clear some stuff up there and you’ll see what I mean here in just one moment. That second part is really focused on Universal Design for Learning, and Universal Design for Learning is an inclusive framework for teaching all students but it tends to be specifically helpful for students with disabilities as well, including neurodivergent students. And, then, that third part is specific strategies. There are 30 strategies that will help you support neurodivergent students in your class, and I did see in the chat someone asked if this would be applicable possibly for people in counseling or advising situations. Yes, and also not all of it.

So, the book is focused on teaching. However, there are a lot of things in this book that are adaptable or that still will make sense in advising and a counseling situation. In fact, I’m doing a workshop in October, an online workshop with a whole group of, people from counseling centers across the US, so that is a thing I’m thinking about. Something else that I’m really proud of in the book is that I incorporated a lot of images and visuals. This is how I tend to learn in most situations, how I learn best. And so this is one example, and I’m gonna talk through this later so I’m not gonna get into too much detail, but please note that I did include a lot of visuals in there to help explain the information but also to give people another way of learning it as well. So, that first part where we’re talking about kind of the basics of neurodivergence really starts out by looking at the words. What are the words we’re using when we’re talking about neurodivergence? Because there are quite a few words that get thrown around.

So, I start by talking about the difference in these different words that we use, so the first one being the word neurodiversity, which is an idea or a concept, and some people think of this in a similar way to biodiversity. And so, we can think about it in a visual way by considering the outside circle as being like a community or a group of individuals. And then the insides of that circle is filled with different colored dots, and they’re all different colors of dots, they’re all different shades and hues. And, when I present this information in person, I often will ask, which of these colors is the normal color? To which people usually giggle a little bit because that doesn’t really make sense. And the same thing applies to our brains. There is no such thing as a normal brain. That’s not how brains work. Every brain is as unique as a fingerprint. And so if that’s the case, then that means there really is no such thing as normal versus not normal. That’s just how the medical model has been set up and we’ve heard that for quite a long time, so other words have developed out of that. So, this word, neurotypical, is a word that has developed out of more of the medical model where neurotypical is this idea, and it’s a social construct, so it’s not really a thing specifically, but it’s a social construct meaning the norm. And so all this is saying is that someone might call a person neurotypical if they… their characteristics, their behavior, the way their brain functions is in line with whatever the dominant society says is normal. And there are people who fit that bill, right? Like there are people who fit whatever the dominant society deems to be normal.

So, in this image here I’ve got that same circle on the outside, but for whatever reason, we’ll just pretend that this is a fictional society, and in this particular fictional society, they’ve decided that blue brains are the normal brains. And so you can see I’ve removed all the color, the dots that are blue and put them together into that smaller circle. And so the inside of that smaller circle is what we would think of as neurotypical. So, again, those are brains that meet the dominant society’s understanding of normal. However, I think it’s interesting to note that inside of that circle where the blue dots are, there’s still quite a bit of variety in that circle. And some of those colors are pushing up against green. Like there’s a couple there that probably you could call turquoise, and there’s a couple there that are getting closer to indigo and almost like a bluish purple color. So, that also brings some more thoughts to mind about, well, where do we draw the line, right? Like who is neurotypical and who is not? And so then that brings us to our final word, which is neurodivergent. And so neurodivergent is also a social construct, and all this means is, so okay, you’re in a society that for whatever reason says that blue brains are the normal brain. Well, then anything that falls outside of those blue brains would be considered the other, or neurodivergent. So, this often brings up a lot of conversation and I’d love to hear in the chat, I know we don’t have a ton of time but I always just like to hear what y’all have to think, have to say. So, if you have thoughts on thinking about these words in this way, I’d love to have those in the chat. I’m gonna go on but I will come back and look at them in just a little bit.

So, obviously the book goes into quite a bit more detail about these particular words, but it does help to clarify what we mean by these words. Something else that I’ll talk about more extensively in the book is, who are we including when we’re saying neurodivergent students? So, there is no one understanding, there’s not a definition of neurodivergent folks. It’s not a medical term, so no one’s diagnosed as neurodivergent. But I like this particular model, which you can see is Doyle 2000, or 2020 rather, because he breaks down into these kind of four categories. So, learning disabilities. These are things that relate to educational skills. And you can see here we have dyslexia, dysgraphia, dyspraxia, dyscalculia. Behavioral conditions would include things like ADHD, autism, Tourette syndrome. And I appreciate this particular model because it includes mental health conditions. One thing that we absolutely know for sure is that depression, anxiety, trauma, OCD, stress, all of these things directly impact the way that our brains work, and often it’s compromising things like executive functioning. And so what that means is that students who are experiencing these mental health conditions probably have brains that are not functioning at whatever the society deems to be normal, which is why I think they deserve to be included here as well. And then that last group, neurological conditions, thinking about things like brain injury, seizures and sensory processing.

So, again, this first part of the book is really just introducing everybody to this idea and kind of clarifying a little bit what are we talking about when we’re saying neurodivergent. Something else that is, that I kind of lean into in this book. I talk about the strengths of neurodivergent folks first before we get into the challenges. Unfortunately, people often go straight to the deficits when we’re talking about people who are neurodivergent, but there are really a lot of important strengths that neurodivergent folks often have. And of course, this is not every single person, right? Every single person with ADHD does not have all of these characteristics, et cetera. But we tend to see some characteristics more than others in relation to, and I’ve just chosen these three categories, ADHD, autism, and dyslexia, because those are the three areas that we have the most research on as far as strengths go. So, I’ve got them overlapping there and I find it interesting that in the middle, what overlaps between all of these are the strengths that you see here, and I’ve kind of blown it up there to the left because it’s a little bit small. So, interest-driven, people who are interest-driven, who are good at problem-solving, pattern-seeking, creativity and curiosity. And I always think about these strengths and I think about, if I were gonna hire a graduate research assistant and I’m doing qualitative research, those are the characteristics I want. I want someone who’s interested in the thing that we’re doing and is so interested that they are like driven to continue working and continue learning more. I want someone who’s good at problem-solving. I especially want someone who’s good at pattern-seeking when they’re reading through thousands and thousands of qualitative responses. They’re able to see and pull out those patterns in a way that perhaps others wouldn’t be. And of course, that creativity and curiosity are really important as well. And these are very important strengths, and again, they tend to be overlooked, so I think it’s helpful to start with those.

And then we can focus a little bit more on some of the challenges that neurodivergent students will encounter in a higher ed academic setting. So, the biggest category of these, and this tends to be pretty common amongst most groups of neurodivergent folks, is that they have difficulties with… And by they, I mean we. I am one as well. We have difficulty with executive functioning. And executive functioning is a big term that also does not have one definition, unfortunately. There are other definitions and models that are not the one you’re looking at here, and those other definitions and models sometimes are… Like there’s one, Miyake, and Miyake talks about the three foundational executive functions. And that really tends to be, in the research world, that’s the more accepted theory and framework, which is fine, but it doesn’t tell me much about teaching and learning. So, that’s why I really appreciate this particular model that Brown has shared. And so you can see he just kind of breaks it down into these smaller categories. Activation, Focus, Action. You could also think of the action as self-regulation. Emotions, which is another reason I really like Brown’s model, because I don’t see a lot of executive functioning models that pull out and highlight the emotional regulation piece. And that piece is so huge for neurodivergent folks, especially students that are at the age to attend college. There’s a lot of emotions going on at that moment and it’s very difficult for students to regulate those in some cases.

Then Memory and Effort. So, there are lots of pieces that fall under these. Some of them are things that we would typically think of when people mention executive functioning. So, like under activation, you can see organizing, prioritizing. Those are often things that you’ll hear people refer to as being part of executive functioning. Other things like planning ahead and then shifting attention and focus, those things are usually also a part of executive functioning as well. So, there’s a lot here. I’m gonna take that model and I’ve got that over to the side, and then I’m gonna add a couple more pieces. So, we know that neurodivergent folks tend to have difficulty with executive functions, okay. In addition to that, there are a few other things that in a higher ed situation we also need to be cognizant of as we are working with students. So, unclear expectations is another area of challenge. Social interactions can be difficult, and also sensory regulation. And so I’ve got all those things, so all the executive function stuff we talked about, these other three pieces, and that’s way too many things. So, in the book I break these down into six challenge categories. And you can see them here.

So, first, Focus, Attention, and Motivation. Second, Organization and Structure. Third, Unclear Expectations and Social Interaction. Then Time Management and Prioritization. Sensory and Emotional Regulation. And then finally, that Working Memory and Processing. So, I go through the third part of the book where I give you strategies for each of these particular pieces, and that will come forward in just a couple minutes, actually. So, before I do that, before I give you a fish, I like in the second part I would like to also teach you to fish first before I just throw fish your way. So, the second part helps us to focus in on Universal Design for Learning. Now, we could do a three-day long, six-hour a day workshop on Universal Design for Learning and possibly still be a little confused about it. It’s a very big topic. But, one of the things I noticed as I was reading articles to prepare for this book is almost every article and study that talked about suggestions for how instructors could support neurodivergent students, almost every one of them mentioned UDL as a really great framework for teaching and supporting neurodivergent students. So, that’s a thing that I wanted to make sure folks knew about.

Also, I already love UDL and that’s the thing I enjoy talking about anyway, so I wanted to throw this in because we can think proactively about the barriers that students may run into in our course and we can think about how could we remove some of those barriers, and that’s generally what UDL is asking us to do. So, we’ll get to the specific strategies in a moment. But as a part of the book, I have taken Universal Design for Learning, which is often very theory-heavy. People who talk about UDL, and Lillian Nave can also attest to this, often when people talk about UDL, they lean a lot into the theory. And I’m a very practical-minded person and so like, okay, great, no, I get it. I understand how it works. But like, how do I do it though? So, this part includes three different planning approaches that you could use to take a look at some of your assignments, some of your lessons, your course, and use the concepts of UDL to look for those barriers, those unintentional barriers that get in the way of learning, and remove those. So, you have three different approaches in the book. I walk through each of these with step-by-step instructions. There are also blank templates in the book. And then also in the book there is a QR code at the beginning of each chapter, and that QR code takes you to a super, super top secret hidden page on my website that has blank templates, that has example templates, and also has printable PDFs of most of the images in the book as well. So, that’s that kind of second chunk that talks about Universal Design for Learning. And then that brings us to our third chunk. And this is where I really get down into those six challenge categories that we talked about earlier and look at some strategies to help support neurodivergent students with each of these challenge areas.

So, today I’m already pretty close to the time I’m supposed to be done talking, but I am gonna share a couple strategies here with you. But keep in mind that you do have access to the slide deck, and Dasha, if you don’t mind to re… Put that in the chat one more time, that’d be great. You can also go in and take a look at the other ones yourself as well. So, I’ll go through a few here. The first being Focus, Attention, and Motivation. So, under that category of challenge, one of the things that we can do as instructors in higher ed is be aware of how much passive sitting and listening time we’re asking students to do, as opposed to breaking that up a little bit with some active listening. So, here’s one example. So, if I were timing out my lecture, let’s say. In the very beginning of the lecture, I’ve got a couple minutes of introduction, going over homework or, “Hey, don’t forget we have a test next week,” or whatever. And then I’ve got about 12 minutes of lecture on topic one, about 14 minutes on topic two, and maybe 12 minutes on topic three. And so during all of those stages of me discussing topics there, students really are pretty much just passively sitting and listening. Should they be taking notes? Yes, they should. But are they? Mm, sometimes. But typically, you’re waiting till that very last five minutes when you ask students, “Okay, are there any questions?” And, of course, it’s crickets for most of us. So, what we could do instead is we could try to think about breaking those pieces up a bit. Let me move my little doohickey down here, okay.

So, perhaps I start out with about five minutes of introduction, I start out with about a five-minute topic lecture, and then we pause and we do a quick one-minute reflection. “So, everybody reflect back on the things we just talked about. What is one part that you feel a little confused about?” That would be maybe a question I would throw out for reflection. And then I would maybe take the next few minutes to have them share that out. So, I’ll say for myself, what this does for me as a neurodivergent learner is I can sit and listen to someone talking about something that I maybe am not super interested in, I can do that for about 10 minutes or so. But then I start to get real antsy and I kind of feel like I’m crawling out of my skin a little bit. And so as an adult, I can’t just, you know, wiggle and get all wild and crazy, so I will probably get on my phone and tune out what’s going on around me. However, if after that 10 minutes there’s a pause and we do something different, something active, so maybe like a reflection where I’m writing something down or I’m talking to the person next to me, or maybe we’re doing the discussion groups that you see later. Whenever we pause and do that active thing, that resets my sit-and-listen timer. And so now we got about 10 more minutes, and then we can maybe break that up with another activity. And those activities that you’re doing, those reflections, those discussion groups, are not lost learning time. There’s tons of research that talks about building things in like reflection and student group discussions to process the information that they just learned, so this is not lost time. This is actually reinforcing the things that you have just taught.

So, that’s just one of the strategies that is under that category of Focus, Attention, and Motivation. So, one thing that you can also do is consider the way you’re laying out your slide decks. We can be intentional in the way that we’re structuring things like a slide deck so that it’s cuing students as to kind of the topic structure. So, let me show you what I mean. So, when I put together a slide deck, I almost always use the same slide deck template. And so, for each heading level, and when you think about heading levels, we’re thinking about like when you’re writing academic writing, right? There’s Heading Level 1 and then the things that fall, that’s kind of your Roman numeral I, II, III stuff if it was an outline. Then you’ve got your Heading Level 2, the things that fall under that, and your Heading Level 3, the things that fall under the As, Bs, and Cs. And so, I use a different heading slide to visually signify that I’m moving to a new area. So, it might look like this. So, like if I laid out my slide deck plan as an outline, it might look like this. So, for those Roman numeral I, II, and III sections, I would probably start those with that dark purple slide. And then, the categories that fall underneath that, that Heading Level 2, I’m gonna use the lighter purple slide. And finally, the sub-sub-subtopics, if you will, that Heading Level 3, I’m gonna use the white slide with the light purple background. So, this is kind of cool and fun and it actually really helps me organize my slides. But when I tell students that this is how I’m organizing things, this is how I’m organizing my slide decks, then they’ll start to know, oh, we’ve moved to. This is a dark purple slide, so we are in a totally different section. And we already know they’re not great at taking notes, so using the slides as a visual structure helps them to structure their note-taking as well. I also try to make sure there’s a very visually clear difference between the heading slides and then the slides that have content, so you can kind of see the difference between those two. This is something I did one time just as kind of in a moment of desperation trying to get myself organized, but then I found that students found this really helpful. So, that is a thing you can do.

And just as an extra bonus today, if this is interesting to you and you’d like to try this out yourself, there is a Google Slides template that you can download. And this is a forced copy, so it will ask you to make a copy in a Google Drive. But you can try that out for yourself if you would like. And then again, you can get to that through the slide deck. This third category, Unclear Expectations and Social Interactions. We find that students sometimes have a difficult time guessing what the behavioral expectations are in a classroom. And I know it seems like we shouldn’t have to tell college students how to behave, but honestly, at least here, we’re seeing that a lot of students don’t really know. And we noticed this especially when we came back from COVID. A lot of professors were coming to our teaching center and saying things like, “Okay, so I had a student in class today that like we were having a class discussion and they like stood up and raised their voice and like… I don’t know what to do with that.” And as people, more and more people described this to me, I was like, honestly, this sounds like people who don’t really know what is specifically expected in different activities in a learning situation in higher ed. So, I thought about, well, could we just like lay this out in a little table perhaps? So, if I were using something like this, and, in my course, we do a lot of lectures, we’re gonna do a lot of class discussions, we’re gonna do a lot of group work. So, I might just lay out for when it’s time for lectures, what I’m expecting as the professor, I’m expecting that you will be silent while I’m talking. And that you will be seated. Like for the most part, people are not standing up and just milling around while lectures are happening, that’s my expectation. Here’s how you respond, or, when would be a good time to respond. So, maybe ask questions during Q&A. Here’s how you can respond. You can raise your hand to show me that you have something you’d like to say. And then I also took the opportunity to add just a little device fun over here.

So, when I’m lecturing, there should really be no reason for you to have a phone out, so let’s put those away. If you’re using tablets or laptops, those should be for notes only. So, having this laid out is gonna be really helpful for neurodivergent students who sometimes don’t see these sort of inherent background clues that apparently some people do see. So, having this for neurodivergent students is great. However, something like this would also be really beneficial to international students. This could also be really beneficial to first-generation students, which we have a lot of here in Kentucky. Any student that maybe doesn’t quite know what’s expected of them in a higher ed learning situation. I would put something like this probably in my syllabus and then I might come back to it every now and then, like so let’s say we’re gonna have a class discussion that day. I might pull this back up and be like, “Just as a quick reminder, everybody, here’s what I’m expecting during class discussions. You shouldn’t need your phone, you shouldn’t need your tablet, you shouldn’t need your whatever.” So, again, laying this out very explicitly and clearly, although it seems like it’s not a thing we should have to do, I think will actually be beneficial for a lot of students, not just our neurodivergent students.

So, the ‘Now’ versus ‘Not Now’ principle. So, this is a term that was coined by Ned Hallowell. He is a psychiatrist. He goes out and speaks about ADHD all the time and he, himself, is neurodivergent. And so he says, “In the world of ADHD,” and this applies to most neurodivergent people, not just ADHD. “In the world of ADHD, there are only two times. There’s now and there’s not now.” And so what happens is our attention goes to whatever thing is coming up next, whatever thing is next, happening next. This can obviously lead to procrastination, a lot of that last-minute scrambling. And then this makes things like long-term projects really hard for neurodivergent students because, if you’re telling me, something’s due in three weeks, well, that’s the not now category. So, that’s over here, I’m not even thinking about that, I’m thinking about what’s due tomorrow or in an hour. And I heard something really interesting that there’s a theory, and a lot of people who are neurodivergent have a dopamine deficiency in their prefrontal cortex, and I heard somebody say that when neurodivergent people wait until the last minute to do things, it’s almost like they’re waiting for the adrenaline to kick in and do the job that the dopamine should have been doing all along. And I was like, ooh, that makes a lot of sense. I have not found official research on that but I thought that was a really interesting concept.

So, we’ll pause there and we’ll go to Q&A. So, Catherine says, “I teach theater at a state university and we typically have a majority or plurality of neurodivergent students in our courses.” That sounds accurate. “Since you have experience in performance-based courses, do you or does the book have any tips for supporting sensory and emotional regulation challenges in these type of courses?” Ooh, that’s so good. I’m trying to like quickly think about what things I have in that category and actually I’ve got the book right there, let me look real quick. But I will say… I also am a theater nerd, my daughter is a theater nerd, she’s also neurodivergent. There are a lot of neurodivergent folks in theater, which I think is really interesting. Okay, I can’t find it as quickly as I wanted to find it just now, so I don’t remember. But yes, yes and no, not specifically about theater. And that’s a thing that if you wanted to email me, we could like think through some ideas together because actually that’d be really interesting. But there are some tips for sensory and emotional regulation. And actually, the very next slide that we were gonna look at is a really nice diagram that walks you through how it’s possible for the lights being too bright in the room or the sounds being too loud leading to perhaps a behavioral reaction that you had not anticipated from a student. And, it makes sense really when you look at it as kind of a whole, and what that looks like for neurodivergent folks versus non-neurodivergent folks. So, I think something of that nature could be helpful just for instructors and understanding what that process looks like and to be able kind of help students pause or walk away or recognize that this is, “I can see that you’re getting a little anxious about this. Do you wanna take a little break?” Or whatever, however that, you know, would work out for that particular instance.

Okay, so Jessica has a new question. “With the movement for lectures, how do you help approach students with accommodations that let them have a short break or get up and move without feeling singled out?” Yeah, for sure. “Is there a note that students can leave any time for the bathroom?” I don’t know what those specific accommodations look like at your university but… I think it would depend on what you were doing. So, I would probably, if I had a student that has that accommodation, I mean, you’d give the accommodation regardless, that’s the law. However, I would probably normalize that for students and probably just say as a whole to the class, “Listen, I understand sitting for a long time is kind of the worst. If you are getting antsy and you just feel like you need to move for a second, if you don’t mind, if you would do that kind of toward the back of the room just so it’s not distracting others, that would be great. Otherwise if you would be seated.” And so that’s normalizing it. That’s not me saying, “If you have an accommodation for this, then you can do this.” But that’s me saying, “You know what? This happens honestly to a lot of us, not just to people who have an accommodation. So, if you are someone that’s experiencing this, please feel free to do whatever you need to do to self-regulate.” That’s probably how I would handle something of that nature. I don’t typically like lecture lecture like that, so that’s not the thing that would come up probably in my class. Another anonymous question. “What practical strategies can help bridge that gap between ‘Now’ and ‘Not Now?'” Yes. I don’t think I have that slide in here, let me just look real fast. I did not put it in there. One simple thing to do, especially if we’re thinking about the now versus not now and we’re thinking about a long-term project or paper or something of that nature, instead of having one due date at the very end, ideally we can break that up into smaller due dates along the way, so that way it would be very difficult for a student to wait until the absolute end because they’ve had an outline due and they’ve had, you know, peer-reviewed journal articles due along the way. And breaking it up like that I think is a really helpful way to do that. But I would also tell students why we’re doing it that way. We’re doing it that way because that’s kind of how I do it when I’m writing an article myself. Like when I’m writing a paper myself, first, I gotta do this thing, then I do this thing, and then you do this thing. So, I think that might be a useful way to start breaking that up. Oh, okay, so I’m gonna pick this one.

So, Ellen says, “I advise law students in career development how best to work with neurodivergent students who have to balance rigorous academics with very important networking and job searching where to find resources.” And I wanted to mention this one because the social interaction aspect is really difficult, and we talked a little bit about that. But, it might be helpful to give students sentence starters for network. Networking, I hate so much, and many neurodivergent people I know also hate it. Because it’s like, I don’t know what I’m walking into, I don’t know what I’m, like, what am I supposed to say? Like, do I just walk up and be like, “Hello, my name is.” Or like, do I ask somebody? I mean, I don’t know, I don’t know what to do. So, role-playing can be helpful for that, but even just giving them sentence starters. Like here’s the sentence starter for walking to someone whose presentation you just saw at a conference, and be like, “Here’s what you could start that with.” And I know that sounds really silly, but that can make the difference between a student doing the thing and not doing the thing, just that little bit of help. And I’ll say one quick example. I was very nervous for my dissertation, yeah, for my dissertation defense, because I need a few seconds to process questions, right? I was super anxious and worried about it. And so, someone I work with said, “Well, here’s what I do. If you think you don’t know the answer to a question, you can say, ‘Well, while I can’t speak directly to that, what I can say is…’ And then you fill in the blank with something that you do know about.” I was like, “What? That’s brilliant.” And having that in the back of my mind was so helpful. And I have used that a few times because I do need that moment or two to process. So, even small things like that can be really, really helpful.

– Thank you so much. And there’s one question that asks, “Does your book give enough strategies to support a program, to support students in higher education?”

– Mm. The book is really aimed at instructors. I think it will still be helpful for students. The problem is, it’s not a problem, but one of the things I run into that’s difficult is the strategies and systems that I’ve figured out that work for me may or may not work for other people who are neurodivergent. So, it would be really difficult, I think, to put something together for like, you know, someone to lay out a program that would have all of these different kinds of strategies. But I do think those six challenge categories, how they’re broken down, how they’re explained, and even some of the examples that are given I think would actually be really helpful for students to start a conversation about and be like, “You know what? You are absolutely right, I cannot stand networking. How are some ways that we can work on that or what are some strategies to support that?” But I think it could be actually a really good conversation starter.